Toto: Steve Lukather On The Battle Between Past And Future
Wednesday, 20 May 2015
Written by Simon Ramsay
Hot on the heels of their excellent new album, 'XIV', AOR icons Toto are back in the UK for a series of gigs that will showcase songs from their new effort along with the classics we know and love. In the second part of our interview with wonderfully outspoken guitarist Steve Lukather, we discuss unlikely collaborations, his opinion of critics and why he won't be signing up for Spotify Premium any time soon.
You must be delighted that you've got a new generation of fans.
To be at this stage of the game – heading towards our 40th year - and to have this kind of buzz on us, we're so appreciative and grateful for this. And surprised. There's a younger audience that doesn't care what some old ‘70s rock critic said about us, like: 'No, I dig these guys, fuck you.' Unexpected people are saying they like us, too. We've been hanging out with Skrillex and What So Not. [He said] he got more successful being a DJ because at the end of his set he played Africa and the whole fucking place went nuts. We're going: 'What – are you kidding me?' They don't have any pre-conceived ideas of what's cool and they think us old guys are kind of cool.
And you've also collaborated with them.
We worked together and were a part of their process over a couple of nights, them and Skrillex, just seeing how they do it. And this is the guys at the top of the EDM game. Now, this is something I never thought in a million years I would do. But we said: 'Well, we were invited down let's go and see how they work, let's go and see what they do and maybe we can all learn something from each other. Maybe something cool will come out of it.' And something really cool did. In a couple of months you'll probably hear a little version of us – a one off collaboration thing. We're not going to go all EDM on everybody, but why not teach an old dog some new tricks.
You mentioned being bashed by the critics back in the day. Why was that?
Well, thankfully most of them are dead! You gotta be able to laugh! If they had any power we would have been done in 1978. You have to look at it like - what credentials do you have to learn to say you're a rock critic? I mean, my gardener has as much right to an opinion as some guy who sits in an office dressed up like a wannabe punk. Say all the shit you want but those guys would suck dick to have my job. Do you want to be a guy sitting around writing about what you can't do and hating on everybody? Or do you want to be in a band travelling the world, playing music for thousands of people and getting paid? What would you rather do?
Easy answer.
The thing is it hurt at first because we didn't know where it was coming from. But we've survived four – almost five – decades. We've been shit on and we keep getting up off the floor after the punch going: ‘Thank you, man.' 'Have another.' 'Boom.' 'Thank you, man.' 'Have another.' And, finally, they stop beating on us: ‘These guys will take the punches and keep coming back so we'll go and pick on somebody else.'
That must have been hard to take.
I remember Don Henley telling me in 1980: 'Look, they hated the Eagles too, but if you hang in there long enough they'll change their mind because they'll see that you can take it and that you've earned it.’ I don't expect all the people to like everything we do. Tastes are tastes and art is subjective. One man's shit is another man's chocolate. But we have stood the test of time so at least we get a little respect for that.
How do you feel about modern day productions where studio technology makes average musicians sound like world beaters?
Well, you've just answered that question yourself. It's like the Wizard of Oz when they pull back the curtain and see there's just this guy pulling levers going: 'Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I am the great and powerful Oz!' It's all fucking magic and bullshit, man. That's why you hear a great record and you go and see the band and they sound terrible and you go: 'What the fuck was that? It doesn't sound real.'
It's very different to the ‘70s.
When we started out you had to be really good. When people say: 'Man, she can really sing...' Would you say that to your doctor? 'Hey, my doctor’s really good, he really knows how to operate.' It's a stupid thing to say. So, yeah, whatever. Listen, the end process is the end process. Not all art is pure and organic. Sometimes it's crazy and I've learned that by working with the EDM guys going: ‘That's a way different way to get to the end result than I would have done.’ In a room, playing until it's right. That's how they work. They like the mistakes, they like fucking around with shit that ain't right, and then they twist it all up and make something out of it. Now, that's not my brain process. It's the end result, not how you get there.
You've talked about the importance of being well trained, but do you think a lot of young musicians today don't bother mastering their craft as it's easier to get heard?
That's a broad statement, man. I don't know if I want to be that broad. I think there's a lot of great, studious musicians and there's certainly a lot of ways to learn how to play now that weren't there when I was a kid. You Google anything and you can fucking learn anything. I was painstakingly lifting up needles to learn Hendrix and Clapton and Beck solos. That was a whole different ear training, a whole different mentality, a whole different concentration. Everybody wants instant gratification now. Is music just noise for multi-tasking? It was our life's blood when we were kids. The difference today is you only listen to one track. Really - is everybody that stupid they have no attention span at all? I don't believe people are stupid. I think the media perpetuates that.
What did you make of Taylor Swift's very public stance against Spotify, something you've been very critical of?
It was a ballsy move and I think it's cool, because I don't give a shit what any blogger tells you, we don't make fuck all from this – Youtube or Spotify. Maybe record companies got paid off or something, but it doesn't trickle down to songwriters or artists. I can tell you that. That's a lie. You show me one motherfucker with a big Spotify cheque and I'll suck your dick on Youtube.
I'm hanging out with Ringo and the guy looks after the Beatles catalogue and I go: ‘How do you deal with all this?' And he goes: 'We get big stacks of paper and no money.' So somebody's making money, it ain't us. Advertising on Youtube – I don't get any of that money. How can they do that? How can they give away my art, my intellectual property for free, and make profit on it and tell us to go fuck ourselves and that becomes legal? How does that happen? That's like saying to the guy next door: ‘I'm gonna go fuck his wife, whether he likes it or not.’ That's bullshit.
Didn't the music industry have to change?
Come on man, if you take the money out of art your art's gonna get worse. These people say: 'Well you've got computers you can make an album in your living room.' It's like, yeah, can you make ‘Dark Side Of The Moon’ in your living room? ‘ Can you make 'Sgt Pepper's' in your living room? Because I'd like to hear you do it. Or ‘punks just go in and play in the studio’. Well, punk music is supposed to sound like that. But if you want well crafted, well produced...do you think they could do 'The Wall' on a laptop?
Certainly not the way we know it. Y'know, the orchestras and big production and great microphones in a great room with great musicians and engineers and a big fuckingNeve desk. You can't do that. You can do great shit on a laptop, I'm not denying that, but you're not gonna get 'Dark Side Of The Moon'. But that's just me, I'm an old dude and I'm getting dangerously close to: 'Get off my lawn you kids! Turn that music down! I hate your music!' While pulling my pants up under my tits.
How have you guys changed over the years, as you've had some highs and lows?
We're not running the race of trying to be the biggest, baddest, fastest, bestest in the world. That's a young man's game just like partying is a young man's game. We're all clear headed elder statesmen now, and I'm kind of cracking up because I always used to be the punk ass in the band. Now I'm 57 years old with a clear mind, body and soul and I look back at the craziness and some of the stupid shit I did, and played, and it's just like: 'What the fuck was I thinking?' When you've had almost a 40 year career, you're going to fall down the stairs and break your teeth a couple of times. So you come out of the fog and fire and you go: 'Don't read the Youtube comments.' And carry on with your life.
A couple of years back you said you were writing a book about your life in the studios as a session player – how's that going?
Maybe when I get a little closer to the dirt nap, we'll start getting a little more serious about that. I'm so booked up right now I don't know when I'll find the time. Maybe in a couple of years when things slow up a little bit. Plus, I think the book might have a happier ending now. Like all of a sudden, full circle. Toto's back stronger than ever. Who knew? Who would have guessed?
Toto Upcoming Tour Dates are as follows:
Thu May 21 2015 - GLASGOW Royal Concert Hall
Mon May 25 2015 - MANCHESTER O2 Apollo
Tue May 26 2015 - LONDON EVENTIM APOLLO, HAMMERSMITH
Click here to compare & buy Toto Tickets at Stereoboard.com.
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